Ideal
F-man, would you post sometime on your ideal? The goal you seek for hiki?
For a more neutral Advise Corner thread with the same theme, check out these threads:
Do you think we Hikikomoris are diverse enough to warrant a recommended list of guides for our social lifestyle?Do you think Hikikomori is linked to NeurodiversityDo you think I'm insulting Hikikomoris?Right now they are in the 1st page of Advise Corner but since I plan to send a copy of this to 2chan's /b/ and the AnonIB Hikikomori Board, I thought it would be much easier to copy paste a single post than rewrite several versions.Why even make this thread if those threads exist?
Maybe it's just luck or maybe it's just frustration but ever since those threads, I haven't really continued focusing on the problems we Hikikomori face. To be honest, I really don't know what other topic to make that would interest Hikikomoris.
When I first registered here, I thought at the very least, it would help both me and the English-speaking Hikikomori community as a whole focus on what problems and solutions we might encounter. In essence, I thought it would help simplify my ignorance of my fellow Hikikomoris. Well, the opposite happened and it made me feel like I might be out of touch with the average Hikikomori so I just had to be sure but at the same time I didn't know what topic to make...A few problems that just further confused the issue for me are:- The opposing goals of a hikikomori who wants to stay as one and one who wants to get on with their lives - through a job or school, etc. (This I at least expected prior to registering)
- The case for what stands for a fake hikikomori from a real one (This I didn't expect. I at least thought that a hikikomori would say they couldn't remain as one when they got out so they're forced to be a former hikikomori rather than the varying degrees of hikikomoris perspective.)
- The large gap between English and Japanese Hikikomoris (Again, this was something I didn't expect. I thought that there would at least have been more of an attempt by someone who understood both languages to connect both worlds even if it was only for Hikikomori-specific threads.)
- My general ignorance of my fellow Hikikomoris in general (I thought that by being part of a Hikikomori forum, I would learn more about the resources and mannerisms of a general Hikikomori and instead it seemed like any forum, I knew more about the personal details of users I agree with and as much as I love talking to you guys - you know who you are - it kind of blew my bubbled ideology that I could replace actual real life befriending of Hikikomoris - the likes which are unknown in my country except for a google search of this blog: http://hikikomoriden.wordpress.com/ but somehow it doesn't seem to talk about any Hikikomori issues - and use this forum as a padding point to be informed of the Hikikomori cause as opposed to trying to do in-depth research most of which would most likely be in Japanese.)
- The case between the difference of an Otaku and that of a Hikikomori (I'll be honest, I thought more Hikikomoris would be sensitive to the subtle differences between these two but it seems there aren't as much of that concern. At least I haven't read any kinds of topic like that over here and in general many seems to have otaku-related interests except for a few of us. - I'm interested in anime and mangas but I haven't dwelved deep into it to be considered an otaku much less a knowledgeable casual fan of modern anime.)
- The case of Hikikomoris trolling Hikikomoris (All forums have trolls so I at least should have expected that but what I didn't expect was Hikikomori being a magnet for trolls. I know of at least one account in the AnonIB Hiki Board where an admin threatened to ban a guy for reporting about multiple people impersonating him. I've also conversed with a troll here who would even go to the extent of editing his posts to make his harsh words seem friendly and also the chat has been visited by a troll who accused everyone here of not being a hikikomori because they didn't use imageboards exclusively and hence aren't Anonymous enough to be considered Hikikomoris.)
As luck would have it, a troll would come by to chat one day and point out that 2chan was the hang-out for Japanese Hikikomoris and while some of you have told me that 2chan is just similar to 4chan, the seed was already planted that it couldn't hurt attempting to try and communicate with Japanese Hikikomoris even if it means the only 2chan channel I know of is /b/ and I'm going to use 4chan's interface to try and paste this English text into 2chan and hopefully someone there would know both languages and can share their opinion over here.
Later on I would learn about the AnonIB Hikikomori Board and my introduction post here seems to be well received enough plus it made me start trying to use imageboards again.Further luck later on, Namaesukawanae would send me her survey and what I originally thought to be a basic questionnaire where I would just copy paste parts of my post from elsewhere in this forum turned into a longer yet more related to my views of Hikikomori version rather than a gray issue of trying to accomodate or ask all Hikikomoris like my threads above.As if to confirm that this was at least a useful thing to do, Namae would tell me that she could translate the survey into Japanese (though she doesn't have time to translate my answers because of the length) so posting on 2chan seems to be worth a shot even though it might open Pandora's Box and increase more trolls coming here due to the nation of /b/ if 4chan's /b/ was a referencing point.Anyways, here are my answers to Namae's survey:
How do you define "hikikomori"? Who do you consider to be a hikikomori?
Hikikomori for me in a summary, is (if a summary is possible) simply one who prioritizes their Honne over Tatemae but because the world often works around the balance of Tatemae/Honne even in mainstream civilizations where people are taught what honesty is but is raised in an environment where the unwritten rule is to never strive to be honest (but to praise people who do live a life of pure honesty) causes an imbalance which gets in the way with their communication of fellow beings. This communication problem though is very similar to mild autism or ADHD, in that it seems like they talk normal and could even be considered great at talking.However I believe a true hikikomori would soon find out that when they try to actually communicate with something that is less orthodox to the other person. I.E. they try to take a friendship to the next level, there are certain mishaps that happen that they fail at delivering the message no matter how sincere or detailed they are. This goes back to the example in this link that shows that even when balanced, Honne can often cause trouble especially around people who do not trust you or are not really interested in your Honne self or simply are sound absorbers and the details of a Honne conversation makes it impossible for them to drown the Hikikomori out and thus they react negatively to the Hikikomori.This causes the Hikikomori to keep receiving such negative feedbacks that they become introverted hermits especially in their mind. The thing that separates them from a mere introvert or a hermit though is both the modern progress of technology that culminated in the internet and the continued decay of society to the point that we are now noticing the effects at a much wider range that someone can now dub this as a "phenomena". But at the same time because the Japanese culture is more of a meccha of these factors, it got more noticeable in Japan first which coincided with the adaptation of the word "Hikikomori" there.Unfortunately, as you probably noted in my post here if you've read it, Honne/Tatemae is simply not valued enough in mainstream society to discuss even among Hikikomoris so there's a good chance that eventually the growth of people living indoors will hijack the term into a more general more indoor-type NEET or even a fad or excuse for staying at home and even worse, an excuse for a person who just once stayed indoors but is now out or is out due to school or a job.That's why it's a very volatile term and it's a very dangerous term and that's why in this reply I wrote to you, I was very elitist with the term. However at the same time, it's also why when someone in the chat room came and said we aren't hikis because we don't try to be anonymous in the internet or try to converse here so we're not shy, I also went against his elitist opinion of it because I'm not saying that a strict definition of hikikomori should be adopted. Simply that A definition of hikikomori should be adapted and we can't just willy nilly accept anyone who calls themselves hikikomoris especially if there's a strong indication that they might have just led an introverted lifestyle. I mean you don't call someone who vacationed for a month in the mountains a hermit, so why should we be so lax with who should be called a hikikomori especially if they can cause people to be desensitized towards the true and more painful yet subtle issues a true hikikomori has experienced and needs support or a discussion on? We can't afford people "graying" the issues of Hikikomori so much because we became a homogenized melting pot for anyone who wants to stay at home.
Based off of that, in your opinion, are you a hikikomori?
(if yes) How do you see this? (i.e., is it a problem or a lifestyle or maybe just a temporary status?)
Are you interested in changing this or just learning how to live with it?
It's because of this problem which is why I choose to neither quit being a Hikikomori nor stay as a Hikikomori. I think anthropology has shown that many indigenous cultures are dying but it's only natural that before total globalization kills all independent identity, some new upstart culture arises in some corners of the world. Most of them internet related cultures so to me it's no surprise that Hikikomoris would be linked to indoors because many of our new cultures are based around the internet except Hikikomoris are one of the first that has also real world attributes along with the "Stay at home" culture and the "Homeschooling" culture and the "Startup Programmer that builds a site that generates millions" culture. We're just more socially related because our problem is often socially related.But there's a reason many indigenous cultures are dying even if each has some specific wiser and better developed mindset in some concepts of our society (like some tribes not seeing a specific color). It's because they haven't adapted. It's just an extension of the Spanish Inquisition or World War 2 or colonies. Except now, it's shifted into different kinds of invasion due to both the globalizing effect of technology and the social decay of society and the new rules we made to accomodate justifying the existence of our over-popularized species without taking serious considerations of it on the casual mainstream level.That's why even if I don't know the next level of Hikikomori progress, I won't and can't stay as Hikikomoris now nor would I be better off conforming even further and sacrificing my identity in favor of just becoming another less independent human being and sacrificing the future of not only hikikomoris but all independent-wanting people. In that sense, one can say I made it my lifestyle even though my environment made me adapt this lifestyle and I just happen to prioritize taking that into consideration as opposed to just ignoring why I became this way and using those knowledge to grow from that branch as opposed to returning to the decaying stem and cutting off the branch to be among the ones who caused me to become a Hikikomori in the first place.
There are a variety of hikikomori ranging from those who don't leave their room to those who just don't interact with people any mroe than they need to in person. To what extent are you a hikikomori?
As with one of the posts I linked above, apparently the most I have been a Hikikomori is to be rank A in degree according to the unnoficial test.
How do you feel around people?
I feel they are just like me. I need to find cues to better communicate with them and some would say be their friends but even though I'm not a sociopath, the recent "friend-addiction" of MySpace and Facebook and LinkedIn pretty much revealled to me that in general most humans just want to "network" rather than be friends so I try to stick to the quote of "It's better to be friendly than to have friends." and just be that way.I often am in a negative environment (to me) though and so what I do is I rust the bridges anytime there's a risk of having people know my parents because I live with them. Even my friends. So usually I'm a lonely person that people stay away from or else I'm forced to lose them or I already lost them before that once they know me better.That's why I tend to not interact with people much but in general, I don't feel bad about them. In fact, I love listening and gaining perspectives from all living beings even though I'm neither an Aristotle who looks at all manners of species or a Socrates who talks and converses with an insane person in the streets.
Do you have any conditions that might have lead to your becoming a hikikomori or,if you answered no to the last overall qustion, becoming interested in hikikomori?I've never been diagnosed with a personality disorder and an EEG said I was fine. I wouldn't rely on that though. Nowadays every person gets diagnosed with a social disorder plus I never went to regular check-ups and many people have admitted that I act abnormal and in fact when I lived with my cousins, they had to tell me what I was doing weird so that I can pick up on it and act more "conformed".As for being interested, I just stick to who I am and it happens that I'm a hikikomori or possessed qualities like it so I just settle for that tag and use that to know more people that are like me as well as to verify how similar and how different those people are from me to make sure that I do indeed fit the profile.
Do you have any friends or fammily that are also hikikomori? (excluding anyone here, that is)
To my knowledge, no. Also I never bothered asking because by the time I knew the word, I pretty much didn't have any friends in real life nor was I close to my family and my relatives, well...the ones I contacted never replied in IM even though it was for a different topic and the others, I just push away.
If you feel being a hikikomori is a problem, do you have any suggestions on how to "solve" it?
If you don't fel that being a hikikomori is a problem, do you have any suggestions on how to live happily as one?
To give that advantage some kind of tangible reference point, make the blanket assumption that an improved (terraformed) piece of real estate will net you 2 FOP's (factors of production - energy, nutrient, or mineral) over and above what non-improved land square will net you. Multiply that by 6-10 (from above - the number of "free" terraforming turns you can expect to get over and above your opponent, and we will assume ten, for simplicity's sake), and further multiply that by the number of bases (formers, specifically) you've got. Whatever number you get is a fairly good estimate of the total advantage you've netted yourself (ie., If you have ten bases, each with a rushed former, your estimated advantage using the formula above would be (2*10) * 10 = 200 FOP's. If you consider that a Trance Scout Patrol costs you 10 FOP's (10 minerals, specifically), you begin to put the advantage in perspective. Of course, not all 200 of your FOP's will be in the form of minerals. Likely, they will be a mixed bag of all three, but that's okay too, because what it really means is that, relative to your opponent, your bases will produce more minerals more quickly, give you more money, and grow faster (which will enable you to make even MORE bases!).
Therefore the law of progress simply put that if Hikikomoris were to progress at a faster rate than all other cultures, the net effect will be that the world will find it more tolerable to deal with Hikikomoris because there seems to be an upside in being one. (No different than the world tolerating the torture of people so that the survivors can become Marines that will fight for them even though it's really just another way for the government to produce an effective weapon.)
I say premature because as my follow-up reply would allude to, I double-posted this topic in the old AnonIB /hikki/ board but unfortunately the link is dead and I haven't reached this portion of anonarchive to be able refer to all the notable replies of that side. (As you probably found out if you clicked the link, alot of the links require registration. That's because Hiki-PhpBB is a private forum and besides the two board communities never quite getting along, this was the other reason why I tend to double-post my topics.)
Update: My post on AnonIB was successful here: http://anonib.com/hikki/index.php?t=185
Unfortunately I could get through 2chan and got this message when I try posting in the /b/ channel: http://www.2chan.net/b/futaba.php?guid=on It's all in Japanese so I couldn't understand anything about it.Edit: Apparently 2chan checks for the ip address of the sender and only Japanese people are allowed to post there.End Quote
Some might say there was no need for me to directly quote my old post in order to answer Name's question -- especially if this was going to be an incomplete thread. It might even have been more sincere if I rewrote the points instead of relying on old and possibly outdated words I wrote months ago.
Not to mention the fact that Name knows me from AnonIB and that there was a good chance that he already read this thread because this was my first thread in there.These are all valid criticisms. I just felt that there was something equally sincere about the raw form of quoting. It allows readers beyond Name to get a glimpse of things they normally might not think of asking but would equally want to know from my answer. It allows them an unfiltered look at my old impressions and compare them to my newer ones without relying on what I said has changed on face value.It even allows one to get a glimpse of my impatience and how I am rarely one to queue a topic when an opportunity arises to address it in a more detailed form. Similarly, this is why I tend to give the impression of posting in a long manner. I just have an extreme dislike for holding back information -- even if these information are not necessarily related directly to the issue or non-opinionated -- because these details are often what inspires a society to critically think about the issues. No matter how mundane and boring, an intentionally long and boring ego-boosting technical talk is not equivalent to a long and boring sincere appeal to communicate. A society that ignores this is a society that promotes a much more subtler anxiety disorder that makes people afraid of addressing serious issues. Sure, no one feels they're getting dumber from being intolerant of long texts but no one is feeling the urgency each information brings either. Details are there to open yourself up to flaws. Flaws are there to provide the balance and remind us that we're still human (and not a human encyclopedia). Balance is there to remind us of the necessity of information. When this is reversed in the search for crisper and better presented texts, balance is lost because little details are sacrificed for simple statements. Simple statements reduces the chance of encountering flaws. The lack of flaws gives incentive to praise less human qualities. Less human in the sense that, instead of understanding that valid information makes us more intelligent, we seek instead to scare those who we deem as possessing ignorant information because they must be punished for being imperfect. Punish them because they must be Gods (or at the very least marketers) who must always share information perfectly. Punish them because we are Gods who must strive for spouting the perfect information. Not in substance but at least perfect enough for quick consumption.The net effect is that instead of there being a large room for information, there is very little room for information except those stated by the highest of Gods, the experts and the social leaders.Today
Judging by the meta-data, I wrote the above during Sept. 23, 2009.
Nowadays I can't say my opinions have changed but the futility and lack of producing anything concrete for hikikomories is getting to me.
It's also bothered me that for the most part, news of Hikikomori have been quiet.
Not that it was noisy to begin with but in my opinion the hardest part, ideals-wise, is to have people and expectations further bring down one's sense of urgency.
Not that it's anyone's fault but my own for expecting something..."not different"...but... more of substance within people who have the same label as mine.
I think it's nice though that the Hikikomori board on AnonIB have become more of a social setting-type of forum and hey, maybe it's just because I'm not very good at stumbling upon communities but in a way I think it's also part of my ideal as a Hikikomori.
What I mean by this is that even though online communities are more suited for technological or event organizing support to produce something collaboratively concrete, to have an ideal or goal for Hikikomories is at the same time to have hope that Hikikomories would have interests in working together with other fellow Hikikomories in something that they both agree with and are sincerely wanting to contribute to.
A good example is the idea that Hikikomories would work together to afford and maintain a house that's collaboratively paid for by their fellow Hikikomories.
The idea is not to my taste and the comment I'm referring to was written in a jokingly wishful thinking way anyway and I'm just using it as an example of "concrete collaboration".
Then again it's my own fault for being un-talented, un-focused and not guiding by example but I think this is why this is how my ideal is and how it directs my goals towards Hikikomories.
My ideal can be summed up in one word which is "belonging".
I value freedom the most even though I don't understand nor possess a literary knowledge of freedom but I see Hikikomori as a path that's among the safest choices to take.
That is, it's an unpopular path - but it doesn't harm anybody else. Not the choice of social withdrawal at least.
Most of the harm comes when the socially withdrawn is forced against their liberty...and they are no good at... performing the socially acceptable way of retaliation or avoidance of pain. (Especially mental pain.)
So that's my goal...
To have helped set up an era where it's easy for people to become hikikomories not because there are tips, support forums or welfare given to them but because Hikikomori is more accepted and therefore easier to move to and away from.
...and if Hikikomori is more accepted, Hikikomories become less jailed people in the sense of feeling like they have to live their life as a battle between their wants and society's wants but more of...just a path.
A path with different but equal opportunities to grow and improve and mingle with similar like-minded people.
As the quote goes: “Once in a while it really hits people that they don't have to experience the world in the way they have been told to.”
That's pretty much "it" for me. Not just as a Hikikomori but as an individual.
For me, there's a battle out there and it's the battle of consciousness.
A battle to realize that there are many out there that are oppressed physically and a battle to realize that there are many out there that lead to physical oppression because we let ourselves be blinded by our mentality.
For every genocide, there's someone committing suicide.
For every slavery, there's being trapped in tradition.
For every freedom, there's being lured in a self-induced cycle of life-decaying pleasure. (and by life, I mean beyond just our own physical body)
...and within those big issues lies the small conundrums. The small things that could easily be worked upon by a group that wasn't worked upon and thus became big.
I apologize if I'm equating racism and women and gay rights with Hikikomori but to me, these are "biologically" minor issues to fix and they are testament that it takes years just to fix them because it takes years just for someone to rally everyone around accepting people that are different and have chosen different paths that do not directly harm them or limit their freedom and that's why belonging is my ideal for Hikikomories because even though we as a group can not unanimously say we have been oppressed in the same way as those popular minority issues because of our location divisiveness and isolation, I see that division as also easily making things much more complicated not only to us individually but to people who one day grows up and chooses to be Hikikomories too.
I see the division as preventing us from developing Hikikomori giants whose shoulders we can stand upon and limits us to being crybabies whose shoulders we merely used for other Hikikomories to simply cry on and explain their situation to each other and I hate it.
I hate it because I know first hand how difficult it is to be un-talented and how easy it is to make up for your lack of talent by having a wide network of people that understand how you can make up for it because of their own experiences and shortcomings and I like to prevent people similar to me to suffer my predicament while having less or equal opportunities to mine because that's not enough.
It isn't good enough for the non-Hikikomori world and it isn't good enough for Hikikomories especially those who find themselves in a bad spot so why not do something to convince Hikikomories of that opportunity to fix our universal belonging problem. After all, it's not a task that requires talent it's a task that requires the urgency of desperation so even if all I can do is say a sentence, my lack of talent, dedication and knowledge is irrelevant over the need for this to happen.
